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Old 01-10-2010, 02:24 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: intake manifold bolts

"8 10 W" is on the bottom of the drivers side head, underneath the manifold.

And I also double checked the stamped number on the passenger side of the block above the motor mount, and I could see the slight 'arc'ed' grind patterns on that surface faintly behind the stamped numbers. I'm no expert, but I would say that they look original. So my best guess is that the "V392 E
1224135" information is original to this block, so heads and block are tagged with 'W'... (1973)?

If I can get a photo of it I will post it here when i'm able.

Am I correct in my understanding that this is an 'improved cooling' 392? and that these heads look correct for this block?

I've completed the pre-lube procedures up to the point of turning it over with the starter, I'm still setting up the electrical end of things, alternator, switching solenoids on the starters, etc. before I get to 'turn the key'...

But I got 50+ psi sustained, at half of the recommended drill speed (that's all I had for a drill) and great oil flow on both rocker assemblies while turning the crank very slowly. To my novice eyes, everything looks really clean on this motor.

The numbers on my unbroken manifold(which of course has nothing to do with this motor), are 1 31 'C'. And it does of course have the C2 prefix indicating a 'supercession' manifold. Man, I feel like somebody! LOL.

Thank you everybody for your input, I sincerely appreciate it. And any and all good advice is always welcome.
thanks,
-matthew
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Old 01-10-2010, 03:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: intake manifold bolts

Yep, that motor is assembled from pieces from various versions...but so what?? if someone used all the RIGHT swaperoo parts then it doesn't matter!

And that is why we need pics like this Matthew, the story of what YOU have RIGHT now is all in the pics!

The exhaust manifold I can see in one of your pics is from a medium duty truck application, see that projection from the end that is threaded? It's NOT a through drilled hole, but a location for mounting a "heat tube" for the hot air choke used on some models. Hot air chokes were NOT used in IH apps after m/y '72 as they did not meet emissions criteria for the Light Line stuff. The Scout II from it's intro as an "810", through the end of the '72 production run did have a hot air choke, but the heat tube was dead center in the TOP of the passenger side exhaust manifold and was a totally different design tube fitting.

The water pump HOUSING installed is NOT the el cheepo "1980" version, it does not have a reducer fitting screwed into the bypass where the ID of it was simply tapped for a galvanized pipe fitting to reduce it's ID.

But again, it doesn't matter UNLESS your are doing an absolute CORRECT resto, and your rig is far from being a candidate for that in it's present state!

The block and heads are DEFINITELY "improved cooling", the engine serial cut for the IC motor is 1013196 and GREATER. The number cut of the export "low compression" engines is a completely different range. So that means the engine was considered a "M/Y 1973" production year version or later.

So the separate thermostat housing and the water neck that is an "L" shape is correct for that application.

The power steering pump bracket also incorporates an A.I.R. pump mount on the top/rear that hangs over the valve cover. That would be applicable to any Scout II or fullsize rig, but NOT a medium duty truck as they did not use those pumps.

And as previously mentioned the spread bore intake could have originally been in a '74/'75 345 or 392 in a Pickall or a '77>'80 Scout II 345. The spread bore intake/Thermoquad carburetor was NOT available for any application on M/Y 1973 and earlier IH stuff.

Engines were somewhat sequential off the assembly transfer line, but because of the HUGE number of variations spread between motor truck, stationary, marine, ag product, export, LPG, etc. there is NO correlation to a "sequential" deal as far as engine number vs. the chassis it was originally installed in.

And...if a particular vehicle FAILED final inspection for whatever reason and had the ENGINE changed out in what we call "offline repair", then the line-installed engine number had to be changed and the replacement input into the "system" by hand so that all the production records matched. And ya think that EVERY vehicle that had that issue was properly accounted for??? It dam sure doesn't happen that way TODAY with computers and robots handling that EXACT same kind of deal and every single screw is accounted for BY WEIGHT as part of the QC process! Humans scruud this process up constantly on a daily basis, that is why folks like myself had jobs...to monitor, correct, and field fix the crap that slipped through the system!

Also...the engines which appear to be identical to the versions that went into the motor trucks, actually have a different set of casting/part numbers since much of that stuff came out of a DIFFERENT foundry and went through a DIFFERENT machining and transfer/assembly line! And those part numbers are NOT found in the parts list for motor truck stuff, in fact, they are found in the stationary and ag lines of equipment documentation. Another reason why we sometimes have a difficult time in deciphering and resolving all these part number/casting ID differences for what appears to be the SAME part! A 345 in a combine sold in South America running on propane is NOT the same 345 that was installed in a 49 state Scout II in M/Y 1976! But those parts DO show up in our world since the reman and scrap business is world-wide!

In working with our customers on this forum, we use the parts and service documentation that was used in the motor truck industry in the North American market, though sometimes we run across all kinds of info from the other divisions and locations IH had spread around the world.

Your pre-lube numbers show to be outstanding, good job, you can rest assured that you are taking the right steps to bring this motor to life!
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Old 01-10-2010, 05:23 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: intake manifold bolts

For more info regarding the "IC" vs."Non-IC" 392 engine issue, check this thread stickeed at the top of this sub-forum:


http://www.ihonlynorth.com/forums/ga...vs-non-ic.html
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: intake manifold bolts

It is very reassuring to know that someone with that knowledge has 'looked over your shoulder' and not seen any blaring "square pegs in round holes" sticking out there. So, thank you guys once again for your help.

I thought someone might want to see what replaced this 392 in the '80 scout. I was told that it was an LS7 racing engine from the track at Daytona. The guys at the garage there had done it all. A LOT of custom work had gone into pulling this off, I can't claim to know if it was the best work or not, but I can tell you that it sounded bad-a@$... Not at all like an international mind you, but bad-a$# nonetheless. It's not something that I would ever want to do, but I always find it fun to see what other people wind up doing to their scouts.



Oh and let me know what you think I should do with this 'broken' intake manifold... I don't have a need for it as far as I know. Anybody have a need for it? I do NOT have the little missing piece fyi, it came to me that way, and I believe it was broken in the shop after it was out of the '80 scout, because the seller had posted a photo of it out of the truck and it didn't appear to be broken in the photo.

Thank you again,
-matthew
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Last edited by matthew thomas; 01-10-2010 at 07:51 PM..
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Old 01-10-2010, 08:55 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: intake manifold bolts

Thanks for posting the pics of the LS7! I've seen one more very similar install! And we have some REALLY nice swaperoos up here also, most commonly involving small block Chrysler stuff since it's so easy to put the Scout II tranny guts in the Chrysler 727. It's almost a direct bolt-in swap!

As for your damaged manifold, that sukker weighs about 53 lbs.! And shipping that around by any method is costly. But PLEASE...don't scrap it! 4V manifolds are in demand and as I said, that one can be repaired! Hold onto it until someone needs one and is willing to pay shipping AND have it repaired!

One more thing I noticed about the EGR valve on one of the manifolds...it's BADLY bent (or so it appears)! That unit may have been dropped, or it was damaged when the motor was pulled out. Chances are it's gonna be a leaker...we have no way of obtaining NEW EGR valves right now, though we do have a some good used ones. Those valves were kinda "selective fit" on the engine when it went through the emissions lab at the end of the assembly line, we know there were at least five different part numbers for EGR, each ID'd with a color coded "dot" on the diaphragm housing.

Since NONE of this engine is now "emissions legal", I'd simpy toss the EGR and block the port with an RPT blockoff plate kit:

EGR Block Off Plate for IH Engine - International Scout Parts
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:04 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: intake manifold bolts

that is awesome! I've been thinking about that EGR and what my options are. You're starting to freak me out man.

I think that whatever broke the manifold, also bent the EGR as both were like that when I picked up the engine in Florida, and there was no other visible damage on the valve covers for example, so I don't think the whole engine 'rolled' or anything. Dunno. Something in the shop I'd guess. Anyway, thank you for the heads up on that block out plate. I'm in the process of making my latest list needed to get this thing on the road again, and that plate will be at the top! and another biting question is booted from my worry-box.
Thanks again,
-matthew
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